If the FIA were biased againt Mclaren, why was Hamilton penalised @ Monza? Re Webber & Glock? Pretty much cancels out any conspiracy theories & just goes back to Poms being whingers

I have been following F1 for the last 23 years and have been a McLaren fan for that long. The last few years I have seen the sport going to the dogs becoz of the way Ferrari gets favoured. These days McLaren is gurenteed of a penalty if they are investigated for anything. I think that the FIA is being run by Ferrari and the stewards might as well get Ferrari jump-suits. Imagine how bad it will become for McLaren and other teams if Jean Todd decides to join the FIA next year. My favourite sport is being ruined by impartiality...

what a load of bum fluff, charlie has been and always will be mr F1, he has always acted fair and square and he is highly respected by many a team and fan alike, sadly he isn't on the payrole at ferrari or gets the back handers handed out to the FIA by the said mentioned team, i think it's time a select commitee made up from all teams at all grand prixs is formed so such pathetic and costly mistakes are punished correctly and not in favor of the prancing horse, long live charlie..go get em dawg

Max and FIA to go

Oh dear me Planet-LH, we know you're McLaren/Hamilton biased which is why there are so many outraged Hamilton fans on here (anything that goes in Ferraris favour must be cheating, eh!), but supporting your case with James Allen quotes - surely even you can see that you've sunk to a new low! lol!

One of the main things that should be discussed in China are the bad decisions being done by the stewards allways favoring Ferrari this is something that must stop. A lot of fans are pissed off.

Sorry to state the obvious Charlie but its time for you to step down as the sport that you have served so well for so long is failing to serve you in even the smallest areas. You are yet another victim of the bourgois elite who are only interested in 'engineering results' so that they can make obscene amounts of money.

Why this is being done, it is because maybe ferrari has a hand (cash) involved in paying the stewards to look things their way. The stewards did nothing to Ferrari / Massa for their pit lanes blunders with them using the electronic "lights". The first time the driver moved whilst the lights were red, the second time, the lights went green, and seconds later changed back to red, massa could have hurt many people in that busy pit lane, and could have damaged other cars or ven caused an explosion with fuel in the pipe. For the second incident, the stewards gave a drive through penalty, ferrari should have got fined and penalised couple spots on the grid or given a match ban. Hamiltons drive through for Japan, what a load of crap, i am not Mclaren or Ferrari fan, but every decision seems to be going Ferraris way. With sebastian bordais, he was not at fault, massa was. later in the ending stages of the match, there was a question asked by the ITV commentators about massa's overtaking in the main straight, when he moved out of the " white lines" close to the pit wall about whether it was legal or not, i dont know how about letting us know if this was in the rules of the FIA / Ferrari and stewards.

I always try to be objective, but after the Massa and Bourdias incident on Japan GP last weekend, I believe FIA is bias. It is time that Max and his cloney should leave this sport.

this just smacks of championship manipulation in ferraris favour

I reckon get in MotoGP and SBK stewards, at least they know what racing is all about. I sits and wonder what cars these stewards drive....hmmm....

With so much being said about improving the sport and specticle it is unfathomable that cockeyed decisions like this should stand without some action! FOTA, GPDA manufacters whomever, get together and make a stand. Qualified Stewards or let them sort it out on track.

fast190 i love your quote hehe

just wondering, how inconsistent do you have to be qualified as an F1 Steward? or how does the FIA selects guys that are supposed to be responsible for enforcing the rules and regulations during race? it is not sport if their is no consistency when apply rules. i guess it is either the Stewards or FIA is plain stupid

I've said this before elsewhere but it seems to me that the European Union should investigate the FIA. They took on Microsoft for unfair business practices, they should do the same here. The fans, teams, drivers and betting public deserve better. If the FIA are really as fair as they claim then they should welcome the chance to prove it and put to rest all the banter. But then if they had nothing to hide we would be given explanations as to why the penalty was not issued during the race, why, under their own rules a 10 position grid penalty for the next race was not the penalty as before they said a 25 sec penalty would only be imposed for infractions that occured within five laps of the end of the race. Once again they tweaked the results after the race.

It does seem that the Italians are funding the championship - obviously the stewards have been told the red car has to win, one would expect Bourdais to get out of the way of Massa, and penalise Lewis for overtaking Raikonen - How much do you think they are paying for the world championship? and won't the whole world know that Lewis is the REAL champion

FIAsco Inc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before the usual stich up cries carry on: Please read the rules. Whiting is race director -He has no authority in stewards decisions, and has no say in such matters. Whatever he personally feels has no bearing on their deliberations.

having watched the England world cup qualifier at the weekend there was an advertising hoarding going around the side of the pitch stating "last year 7000 referees quit" - now I know where some of them have gone..

this is heresay. why dont you try to get the true facts first by interviewing whiting?

this is heresay. why dont you try to get the true facts first by interviewing whiting?

this is heresay. why dont you try to get the true facts first by interviewing whiting?

I agree with superspek83. I liked Massa up until he tried to blame Lewis for their incident. What a joke. It was totally 100% massa's fault. Lewis admitted he made a mistake fair and square at the 1st corner. Massa drove like an idiot. It is one thing to out brake your self and run deep like Lewis did, its another to hit 2 drivers in one race when it was easily avoidable. Can you imagine if Lewis had of done that, he would have had every penalty under the sun. The bourdais penalty is comical only its no longer funny. its recking F1.

During the Olympics there was a case where the judges of a kick-boxing bout failed to give the British girl the points for a kick to the head of her opponent (Chinese girl, I think). The referee and 2 of the 4 judges didn't score the kick, even though the TV coverage showed the ref in clear sight of the blow. At the time the commentators mentioned that in this sport you cannot appeal the judge's ruling, even if it was shown that the judges were incompetent. Fortunately someone managed to get the judges to see sense and right the wrong they had made. Shame this does not happen in F1! There must be a list of FIA Super License holders. Anyone have a copy of it? Would be nice to know if any of the current stewards are actually holders. The FIA rules and regulations state that all stewards have to be super License holders. If this proves not to be the case, then all teams have the right to appeal the rulings from this season, regardless of the nature of the penalty.

f1 is a dying sport, the fia are going to kill it off, who judges the fia and their new favourite slogan'incident between x and x to be investigated after the race (actually means lets give ferrari points and no one can appeal) the fia need to be investigated, maybe get the NOTW to do it, a few cracks of the whip maybe max?

Its time we got some Professional Stewards, that travel to all the races to oversee the rules of the race. You get the feeling that Itailian team can do no wrong and when ever they are involved in incidents with the British team, they come out on top! Annoying to say the least.

Well done superspek83,F1PuetoRico,fast190 Well done indeed If you can see it and I can see it.Why the Hell can't the stupid so called stewards see it.IT REALLY MAKES YOU THINK what the hell is happening in Motor sport today.

What on earth has it got to do with bloody James Allen? He is not a team owner, steward or the FIA. He should report the race not give personal comment on the race stewards decisions. I am not interested in what the totally biased Aleen has to say, he lost credibility years ago. 2 races left fella, time enough to get another book out about how good other people are?

The Stewards dont have to explain their decisions because they are part time unpaid Amateurs!!! END OF. Therefore the Question needs to be asked how many of them are seen wearing Ferrari T-Shirts down the Pub...

They heard we'd like more consitency in the stewards rulings so they are introducing idiotic penalties to help Massa after every race from now on!

The stewards and FIA obviously prefer Ferrari and they don't care. They are making numerous bad calls and it's making the fans mad. Massa was in the wrong. No one expected that Bourdais would be penalized. It's not about the best car and driver now. On top of this there is no North American GP next year?!!! What the hell!! Come on guys. get your finger out.

If the stewards of F-1 are trying to stop people from watching F-1 then thay are doing a fantastic job. Why would anyone ever want to watch a competition that the best driver is not allowed to win. F-1 is becoming more fake than WWF. It seems that the FIA has decid3ed that it is Ferrari's God given right to win the title and they will do everything possible to ensure that happens. F-1 I have watched my last fixed event.

Okay, let's say that hypothetically, in the final two races for some reason Felippe Massa/Ferrari do not finish high enough to credably win the 2008 world championship. And for the sake of discussion, in each of the two remaining races there are no incidents, accidents or occurances where another driver or team can be penalized in order to benefit Team Red and give them the required number of points to "win" the championship? What do you suppose the FIA will do to somehow make Ferrari the winners? Will they go back to a different race earlier in the season and give someone (probably McLaren) a retrospective penalty? Deem someones car too shiny, causing Felippe Massa to squint and impair his vision during a race? Perhaps even go so far as to penalize a team for having too many non-red fans supporting in the stands? I mean judging from past judgements, nothing would suprise me. I feel that the end of the story has already been written, but the script has been written in pencil, depending on who needs to be blamed, or what penalty needs to be imposed in order to ensure that Ferrari will win. Just as another reader wrote in earlier this year, it is starting to look a lot like American WWE wrestling. Pre-scripted entertainment with the competitive portion already decided before a car ever takes to the pavement.

maybe the stewards suffers of selective amnesia, selective dislexia or they cant use eyeglasses on the race for security reasons (obviusly secure the Farserraris at all cost) .I think a boxing referee will do a better job.

I can't help wonder why this is allowed to happen in F1,why do these so called stewards not have to answer for these incredible stupid desicions that they continually make?? why are the penalties in my opinion only be metted out to teams that don't drive a red car?? What the f**k does Hamilton have to do to get a fair crack of the whip?? he's a natural racer but seems to be being penalised for bringing some excitement to a sport that needs an injection of excitement.I bet if he drove a Ferrari he would be world champion by now. As for Massa I've lost all respect for that little prat.

WHAT THE F**K ? It seems to me that at this point in the season only Divine Intervention would help Lewis win the Championship FAIR and SQUARE...but then again God's earthly Rep. resides in Rome!

I'm sick of Stewards who have never even sat their fat a$$ in a race car. What the hell do they know about racing? Obviously nothing, they are a bunch of stooges who have been given a little power and constantly abuse it. This sport needs to be fixed and fixed now. Hire some permanent Stewards who know something about racing. Oh yeah...that would probably cost Bernie some coin...god forbid! I tell you it's out of control. I really try to not be biased in my opinion and do not typically subscribe to the conspirary theory about Ferrari but I'm rapidly becoming a believer.

stewards are starting to be more like refs BLIND and ferrari are more like the mufc of old getting away with most things?ferrari and the stewards are the ones that needs looking at???Im starting to lose my grip with f1.Lewis is trying to race after all thats whats he,s paid to do?

Do the stewards have access to slow mo Video evidence, or JUST hear say from Ferrari ? F1 could try some BTTC stewards for a lot less money !!!

I and friends are now totally disillusioned with F1. It is certainly a case of Ferrari F1, so we are now looking elsewhere for our motorsport thrills. It is the sport's loss, as we usually spend alot of money following F1. No more. Moseley and Co, get your act in order, before you lose most of the people who enable F1 to operate - i.e. the British fans. Bourdais was very wronged by the very biased decision.

I'm going to give up on F1 and start to follow Touring Cars... someone should have a look at the relationship between stewards and Ferrari...

Yep...They check with the wrong person again...They didn't check with FIA-really....

Oh no! With the financial crisis and now the anger with stewards, I hope F1 can survive. Does not look, sound and feel good anymore. I don't mind if fans support the drivers they like, that's personal. But now with stewards ruling and being bias in the public eyes, that's a humongous blow to the sports. After reading all the comments, there's so much truth. FIA must look into these matters urgently. I feel a RIOT brewing. SCARY. Please spare some thoughts to the fans as their passion makes F1 complete.

Don't know why anyone is surprised by this. After all, Whiting OK'd Lewis' move on Kimi during the race at Spa - twice - and then was overruled after the race by the Stewards acting under the "advice" of Mosley's Supervisor of Stewards (who always seems to be prominent in these controversies). Whiting's a good fellow and very good at his job, but being a race official these days with the current FIA Steward situation as mandated by Max is playing into a stacked deck. Race Control is now in the same boat as the fans - we're all just along for the ride as it appears that actual racing is now secondary to Max's crusade to "punish" his self-determined "enemies" with the FIA Stewards as his personal instrument of retribution.

I always understood from the commentators that the white line from the pit exit was a no go area. Massa clearly had all four wheels over the line. Bordais had nowhere to go and was clearly in the right. I have just watched my last F1 race and it seems that there is one rule for one and another rule for another.

It seems to me that it's one rule for Ferrari, a differant rule for the rest of the field as far as the stewards are concerned, and AGAIN the decision was made POST race. Max Mosley is right about F1 needing to lose money, well there's your answer, keep up the sham of these idiot stewards finding favor for Ferrari, even when they are in the wrong, and you'll lose viewers and spectators, therefore saving money.

Do the stewArds communicate with Charlie Whiting? Or is he there just for show? I never understood that. If he told the drivers shouldn't have told the stewards too? Or is it becuase there are different stewards every race that the message doesn't get thru?

It's interesting to see that alot of people are advocating permanent stewards at each race. Surely if the stewards were biased towards Ferrari, then having the same biased people at every race would mean consistent penalties going Ferrari's way. Oh wait, you seem to think that's already happening, so can EVERY single one of the stewards they're using be pro-ferrari? Not likely.

What the other drivers should do is to pull the car to the side and park it everytime they see a Ferrari comming by. That way the cry baby Massa would not conplaint to the stewards that work for Ferrari. Massa I hope you never win a championship in your life!

oggie_5, I'm not sure, but I think Herr Schumacher was driving a Renault when he punted Damon off.

cdnj: What can you say, Ferarri, FIArarri, FIArarri, FIArarri...this sport is a joke now, absolute joke, can someone let me know what the final result of the season is as I wont be watching from now on ...... ..... No need to watch F1 M8, just wait until 2 weeks after the final race & see who the stewards decide to let win ... My money's on a Red car ;~) ..... the up side is If we let the stewards decide every race the team's can all stay at home & the cost savings will be Huge Max . . . F1 is dead, killed by inefficient stewards, corrupt officials Oh and of course The greed of Bernie .... there r3eally is no point in watching this farce anymore.

Both went into the corner, both racing for position, Massa squeezed him to the edge of the tarmac, massa got bounced...... Massa's fault.

Bourdais had right of way, it was for position and Massa could easily have avoided a collision much like when he rammed Lewis, Massa's a talentless goon and for him to say Lewis pushed him off in that chicane, what a muppet. Since when do drivers get punished for missing their braking point and locking up going into the 1st corner, oh I forgot, only when Hamilton does it! For Lewis to get punished at all was a surprise (or maybe not in the current climate) but for him and Massa to get the same punishment was a joke, surely running off the track and then back on deliberately into another car was a far worse offence, surely a 10 second stop go penalty was more justified. I was staggered to find out not only has Massa go away with hitting Bourdaid but Bourdais had in fact been penalised, these sort of decisions are making F1 an absolute laughing stock at the moment, the FIA will stop an nothing to stop Hamilton and Mclaren winning the title, it is so obvious it's sickening!

It's a complete disgrace that the FIA have accused Bordais in the incident with Massa and therefore promoting Massa by one more position. The truth of the matter is that Ferrari are gaining an extra advantage in Formula 1 by dishonest means. I am not surprised of course as this has been going on for some time and was most evident when Schumacher took out Damon Hill preventing him from becoming world champion that season and therfore denying him his rightful place as a double world champion. Lewis Hamilton has his faults but deserved to be champion last season and if there is any justice will become world champion this season despite the efforts of the FIA to see to it that a Ferrari succeeds once again.

why is this multi billion dollar sport F1 shrouded with myteries? why is the sport being managed by so called professionals that appear so shadowy? why teams and their drivers are so cautious with their speak? why sports journalist are so compliant? just wonder where F1 would be if there is a Transparent International Index on sports?

So they saw that Bourdais should've slowed down as Massa was already with half his car ahead of him, which judging by a closer angle can be very true. This is of course Inconceivable by all the Conspiracy Theorists... ridiculous!

As we see yet again, the F.I.A.(ferrari, international assistance.) have taken it upon themselves to help the red cars out. The stewards have at least been consistant when it comes to aiding ferrari when the drivers can't quite get the job done. Anyone who knows anything about f1, knows that Bourdais was in no way responsible for the incident with Massa, it was clearly a desparate move by Massa, that bit him on the a**e. Why sould the teams spend millions each year, and fans spend their well earned cash to go and watch a race that will ultimately be decided by idiots who must think that f1 fans are stupid enough for them to be able to make decisions like this and get away with it. I have watched f1 for over 20 yrs., but recent goings-on not only are making a mokery of the sport i love, but an insult to my intelligence. Ferrari should be ashamed if they accept a championship under these blatantly bias conditions. True fans know who the true 08 champions are.

cdnj: What can you say, Ferarri, FIArarri, FIArarri, FIArarri...this sport is a joke now, absolute joke, can someone let me know what the final result of the season is as I wont be watching from now on ...... ..... No need to watch F1 M8, just wait until 2 weeks after the final race & see who the stewards decide to let win ... My money's on a Red car ;~) ..... the up side is If we let the stewards decide every race the team's can all stay at home & the cost savings will be Huge Max . . . F1 is dead, killed by inefficient stewards, corrupt officials Oh and of course The greed of Bernie .... there r3eally is no point in watching this farce anymore.

Two "pro-Ferrari" wrong decisions in one race. I can see the stewards panicing once they realised that they had no alternative to punish Massa for his move on Hamilton. They levelled that up by unfairly giving the same penalty to Hamilton for what was nothing more that a normal first corner mele! Now their ingenuity in blaming Bordais for Massa's dangerous driving beggars beleif!

FIA race director Charlie Whiting had briefed them in Singapore and again in Fuji that the car exiting the pits has right of way.'

Its certainly refreshing to read posts from ferrari supports that don't agree with this decision. Bernie, Max and his stewards are ruining this sport for teams and fans alike. I miss the good old days of racing....

I doubt there is any "agreement" between the stewards/race officals etc to punish anyone that stands in the way of Ferrari victory, but some of the decisions this year beggar belief. This decision is an absolute joke. How can the stewards or the FIA retain any sort of credibility after this season. Unlike football they do have the benefit of replays, and time to make the correct decisions. But they dont seem to be able to do that, at all. What happened to permanent race stewards and continuity, and whats the point of the experienced Charlie Whiting if none of these idiots are gong to pay attention to him. Maybe he's not on the Ferrari payroll! F**cking riduclous. Rant over! oh, and Stoff, should Bourdais have stopped and let Massa through then, giving up his own position, i dont think you know anything about racing do you?? Ferrari fans are f**cking blind.

Toro Rosso have a right to appeal the stewards' decision to award Bourdais a 25 second time penalty in Japan, just as they were allowed to appeal Liuzzi's time penalty in 2006, as time penalties can be appealed, whilst drive-throughs cannot be appealed. This is unlikely however, since the team would be biting the Ferrari hand that supplies their engines.

The FIA has got a real problem on its hands here. Basically the stewards are amateurs operating way outside their fields of expertise. You can't have that in a highly technical, professional sport like this. The same stewards should travel to every F1 meet and be accountable to the race director. I'm sure it will put a few of the auto club's noses out of joint when they're hosting the GP, but that's tough. By the way, does the FIA monitor betting patterns the way they do in tennis for example???? With contentious decisions like these they certainly need to, if only to ensure complete transparency.

It seems in light of next years new regulations to generate more overtaking, the FIA are hell bent in preventing drivers from doing just that, for fear of a penalty! What a rediculous set of circumstances. When are the FIA going to be brought to task for bringing the sport into disrepute ?

once again the decision goes ferrari's way. mr whiting dont waste your breath no ones listening anyway.so glad i got up early yesterday morning it wont be happening again

I have been a Ferarri fan for a number of years now and I must say that on this occasion it makes a mockery of the sport. No way No how should Bourdais have been punished for that incident, it smells of Ferarri biased and that isn't good. The start line incident with LH was deserved of a drive through penalty and even the other incident with Massa was deserved of a penalty even though the Ferarri bashers would say Massa deserved more. Something needs to be sorted because I love F1 and Ferarri and I find it very hard to not agree with the general concensous that the officials are biased.

I'm a Ferrari fan (and a Massa fan) but this is indeed getting ridiculous. What good is a tainted Championship? F1 is already a boring procession, now these nonsensical rulings are going to inhibit the drivers to such an extent they'll be afraid to challenge. We saw the time and money it cost McLaren to appeal a penalty - how can a small team like Toro Rosso afford to appeal? In Nascar the drivers just throw their helmets at the offending driver's car, and in Indy racing (and formerly in Champ Car) they duke it out in the pits.

I completely agree with all the posts. The stewards on behalf of the FIA are ruining F1. I can;t believe Bourdais got a peanlty for being on the inside of the track exiting the pit lane. What the *&^*^ was he supposed to do? They obviously want Massa to win, so Ferrari will stay with F1 and keep Max happy!!!

This should be added in the F1 textbooks as the greatest joke of the year after Spa!!! Anyone who saw the incident with clear mind, knows that is was a 'desperado' move from Felipe and he's the one should be penalized. But to hear the verdict whereby it was Bourdais who got penalized...its just speechless. It shows how desperate is the FIA in 'Making' a world champion by handing out points to "Ferrari". But we all should know who is the real worthy champion is. That will be revealed in China.....!!!!!!

I agree that the stewards decision is questionable, but I question why people think the FIA are manipulating things. As the commercial rights holder, Bernie is the one who benefits most from the championship going to the last round, and as Ferrari are the marque name in F1, it's also in Bernie's best interest for Ferrari to win or at least be in the running until the very end. So if anyone is pulling strings here, I'd look to Bernie first. But as I've said before, if the teams are OK with this type of officiating, then why should we the fans care? Ask yourself when was the last time a team questioned the current method of officiating races and demanded that it be improved? Not in the last 10 years anyway, and I'd imagine it's because they all feel they will benefit from these decisions more than they will be hurt. So get over it, because this is clearly how the teams want it.

What is a joke is a toro rosso comming out of the pits with fuel and cold tires and challenging a light, warmed up Ferrari with ~3 laps to go until pitstop, especially if that car is driven by someone who's already shown he really kamikaze! .. Massa should've done what Hamilton did repeatedly in Monza (with no punishment) - push the other guy on the grass...

Dear Charlie, Please be noted that on top of all the rules and regulations pertaining to the sport of formula 1, all such are of second nature when it concerns team FIArrari. We do understand that your concerns and directives are all referring to the manual of the sport. However, as explained, we therefore, are of certitude that we have executed all decisions, penalties and reprimandations consistent for over 30 years now. Get the Picture??? Yours Trully, Race Stewards

Soon you'll get a Penalty for celebrating too wildly when you win a race like you do in Football!

This decision to penalise Bourdais is far worse than the 'Spa' decision. When will they see that this inconsistent, unfair stewarding is making a mockery of F1. Shame on the FIA, the stewards, Bernie and the team managers (for not having the balls to stand up and say something). Remember San Marino 1982 when the majority of the teams boycotted the race for wrongful disqualifications!

PF1, it is well known that Charlie Whiting's role is a bit ambiguous. Maybe you could actually do something approaching journalism and try to shed some light on that. That way your readership would be better informed and be able to form conclusions that amount to more than "Ferrari cheated!" oh wait, that's your opinion too right? Never mind then, as you were.

Its plain as!!!! these so called stewards are taking back handers!! I used to love f1. but now ive got to wait afew hours after the race to see who the stewards think shld win???? They have done there best to try and stop hamilton winning!! If i were him id walk and go over to the USA and race! F1 is dying Thanks fia your doing a grand job!! NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I say FIRE the lot of these bureaucratic, geriatric unqualified pipe smoking idiots that attribute to NOTHING except questionable decisions amongst teams and fans alike. The only reason why conspiracies exist are for these reasons. What is the use of having a race director if he holds no weight in what is said as most team managers who sit in the pits ask Mr Whiting for comment. If its wrong its wrong or if its right its right, why take so long to make these decisions?

What can you say, Ferarri, FIArarri, FIArarri, FIArarri...this sport is a joke now, absolute joke, can someone let me know what the final result of the season is as I wont be watching from now on

Yes it is very clear now that the FIA and Ferrari are cheating. It is impossible that Bourdais was to blame here, or in any way could have caused the incident... Impossible!

What a joke! Im getting very tired of all these penalties along with the rest of F1 fans im sure. Inconsistent, incoherent. Surely this one should be overturned by common sense, arh no, the stewards decision is final as we found out after spa so they can decide who wins the f1 championship while sipping a nice cup of tea!