radweld, you can point out the facts till your blue in the face, but some people can't quite grasp how stupid their posts sound!, a driver can offer a wealth of information to the team while testing the car, but the difference between improving a good design and a bad one are huge!, for a start with a bad one, straight away you are trying to play catch up with everyone else, and even then due to the inherent bad design, there is only so much more speed you can get from it over the season!, and given that there is no in-season testing anymore, there is no real scope to improve much anyway!, but with a good design you can just concentrate on making it quicker, and not be constantly trying to overcome problems with the car!

schumerak Engineers design cars, drivers drive them. There is nothing a driver can tell the engineer he doesnt already know through the telemetry, if you think a driver designs and develops cars then boy do you have a lot to learn. "This is probably the first McLaren that Ham has had an input to in terms of driver feedback. the 2007 car was from kimi and the 2008 car from alonso... ...it all starts to become clear

It do's not take long for the idiots to reapear Lewis as won championships at all levels without the help of team mates to set the machines up,so please let get away from the rubbish that some on here likes to say that lewis cannot set a car up.

f1_freak_666,I'm one of those fans who said it was a beautiful machine in March,and guess what,1st or 20th it's still the most aesthetically pleasing car on the grid by far,in my opinion anyhow.Beauty's in the eye of the beholder,lol.

mclaren is learning lessons, and the sky is blue. thanks dear.

"f1_freak", it may not be fast, but you cant seriously tell me it aint the prettiest car on the grid. All show and no go though.

This is probably the first McLaren that Ham has had an input to in terms of driver feedback. the 2007 car was from kimi and the 2008 car from alonso... ...it all starts to become clear

f1_freak_666 the McLaren MP4-24 is still the best looking car on the grid and if you are a fan of the Clowns in red you have nothing to brag about except just one thing that your big nosed Luca managed to unit all teams.

maybe some copies of red bull blueprints could unexpectedly be found, i am ceratin i am not the first one to think about it.

Yes, the "trails" and tribulations must have been hard for Lewis & McLaren.

I can't help but recall all the bragging by the McLaren fans when this years car was unveiled at the start of the season about how beautiful it was and how it was going to dominate the field. I wonder how many of them still view the car as a work of art now it's true performance level has come to light?

why not just use last years macca then, and hope no-one notices - even if they do get a ban, not going to materially change anything - not anywhere near the front with this years crap-heap anyway.... so no loss.

both ferrari and Mc laren have said they are working on ther cars for next year;especialy Mc laren .ferrari made a little progres but not enough but Mc laren seems to stay the same no power no grip . I am a Mc laren fan but no body can bend the truth.

i think they should try the car without those "humps" over the exhaust, in theory there good ideas but it could also be part of their problem, they may be causing to much positive pressure under the rear wing and they havent found a way to counteract this. im sure theyve already tryed this in the wind tunnel so i could easily be wrong, but if they havent, i think its worth a shot.

Learning to... go slower?