Well Shlick it¿s good to have a cheerfully minded exchange of views without the need to call names as so many exchanges on PF1 do. I remain of the view that FOTA have behaved unreasonably towards Williams and F.I. and they should show more respect and consideration, especially where Sir Frank is involved after all he has put into F1. In a way it shows a slightly unpleasant attitude pervading through FOTA but I¿m sure Williams and F.I. can look after themselves. As for winners and losers, who can tell? I believe that this will go to a resolution as agreed in Paris and, in a perverse sort of way, everybody wins. The FIA get an agreement on cost cutting and do bear in mind I suggested many weeks ago that Max¿s initial £40 million proposition was never a serious suggestion beyond being an opening gambit to focus minds. In turn FOTA win because they have attained a cost cutting programme that fits their perception of things. F1 as a whole and the supporters win because it all stays together. On the basis that a breakaway series isn¿t viable I have never taken Ferrari¿s threat to pull out as a serious proposition. Ferrari outside of the pinnacle of motorsport in inconceivable, they have far too much to lose as a business. Racing is the origin and the being of Ferrari and without it they will lose all credibility and won¿t have a business as the premier name in sporting vehicles. I think we are largely in agreement but the foregoing is my rationale regarding Ferrari being around as long as F1 is around. I am not so sure though about Toyota, Renault and BMW beyond the next couple of years which is why Max is on the point about the imperative to cut costs. Here's to a good GP weekend!

wow deep360, i have to once again agree with you, though it would seem by your reply you dont seem to realize that i agreed with part of what you said the first time round. This time im agreeing that, yes, my compliment was a little backhanded. However, i did state that there is no chance there will be a breakaway series, my reasoning though is different to yours. As for you being a Williams fan, well, i felt like poking fun at Sir Frank and the indian billionaire and then felt like putting you in the same boat as them, and i think you can stay there despite being a Ferrari fan. Really, jokes aside, as i said in my first comment, Max has lost, he just doesnt know it, and i think your with him on that one. Forget the threat of a breakaway series, the only threat that matters is Ferrari promising not race in F1. That is very easy to accomplish, a lot easier then creating a breakaway series. If you fail to see how for that reason alone Max has lost, please reread my first post. Ferrari not competing wont affect all races the same, it only needs to affect a couple for it to matter.

Could the minutes of the meeting between FOTA & CVC possibly read: CVC "Ok FOTA. What are your budget calculations to start your new, proposed series" ? FOTA: "Understandably enough, we have done a great deal of detailed research and conclude the precise costs involved are as long as a piece of string, but ultimately subject to damages and costs if we lose our defence against various writs likely to be served upon us".

Thanks shlick for your (probably back handed) compliment about my being funny, it¿s a preferable trait. Unfortunately I have to disappoint you and deny my support for F. I. and Williams . . . except of course my support for them being in F1 and I wish each of them success. So it¿s not bitterness; rather it is a comment on the arrogance and lack of camaraderie among the teams themselves that show FOTA up for what it is . . . a shallow and short term organisation, just like all its predecessors. But shlick, you would laugh if you really knew the team I have supported for countless years. Oh the irony! Should I tell? No, that would spoil it . . . . just take it as ¿red¿! And by the way, all the other things you ask me if I know, yes I do know of them. I say ¿of them¿ deliberately because they are a mixture of facts, rumour, conjecture and hearsay. But don¿t let that get in the way. Yours funnily; deepwater330.

Hybrid; it¿s a fair cop, I confess; please don¿t pull out my fingernails!! But I see I¿m not totally without support, thanks to Stormwarning (an appropriate name for now) and Chylout. The truth of the matter is a governing body¿s role is to govern and the role of competing teams is to compete. This is all going pear shaped because they are each poking their noses too far into the business of the other and they are also getting personal about it. I have been a consistent supporter of Max Mosley, much to the chagrin of most of you, I know and even I agree that this extreme brinksmanship is getting out of hand . . . . but that goes equally for FOTA, not just the FIA. It is easy to dismiss all the past and forget the enormous contribution Max has made to the governance of F1 over many years. The safety improvements over recent years, most of which he was the prime instigator, are responsible for more than one driver still being alive today who otherwise may not have been. And let¿s face it, this sort of carry on has happened every 10 years or so throughout F1 history, usually because the teams think that they can run things better and more often than not the school girl behaviour has been BETWEEN the teams so they¿ve nothing to write home about. However, it is now time to lock all sides in an uncomfortable room without food or drink and not let them out without a fully signed up and irrevocable agreement.

Since no one seems to think that a breakaway can succeed, then FOTA do have one 'option' left.....a 'sit-in' if you will....you show up, but you don't race.....there goes the 2009 season, down the toilet.......it would only take ONE such event to shake the very foundations of the FIA/FOM. That said, the FOTA aren't stupid, and will work a deal with the FOM whilst telling the FIA to pack sand. The FOM are the key to having ANY season......the FIA are not key to anything. Racing can, did, and will exist without the FIA meddling with it. There is no 'value added' by sucking up to the Mosely crowd.

Ide bet my grannys false teeth FOTA wont breakaway,few reasons,no time,no tracks that want to be sued off B.E or whoever and that they make themselves look likE Max Mosley WE WILL WE WONT WE WILL,get a grip and make some rules as personaly after not missing a race fot 20 years its pathetic.

Have to agree with Deepwater330 - there's insufficient time for FOTA's new series to be up and running next year. Just looking at Deepwater's huge list - surely everyone knows the task is not just daunting but impossible ! On top of that, who's going to tackle and pay the costs of defending the writs hurtling in from Max & Bernie (Max & Bernie who notoriously have an almost 100% success rate on the litigation side of things) ? If Fota do breakaway now, it's heading for a real mess in my view.

wow, deep360, you really are a funny guy. I can only conclude that you are either a true fan of Williams or Force India. Please dont try to deny it, its obvious your bitter about the way FOTA have basically strung them out to be second rate brands. Its OK really, but funny none the less, you need to find a new team, cause those two are going to be look even more pathetic once TeamUS joins FOTA as they are rumored to do so over the coming months and Williams and Force India are still out in the cold. That said, it's a fair conclusion that a break away will never happen, following that, its an even fairer conclusion that at the end of the day Max will lose, he already has he just hasnt accepted it. Firslty, you claim Max has called their bluf? Hmmm, i really dont think Ferrari promising not to race next year is a bluf, did you also know that most venues rely on government handouts to be able to afford Bernie's price tag, did you know that is the reason Max holds on so dearly to the the fact that Ferrari has a special agreement with them to stay in F1 regardless of whether they sign up or not, an agreement that Ferrari is happy to ignore, what is the connection? quite simply most people that turn up to F1 races dont know the first thing about what is happening in F1 these days, they are not the type of people that read F1 sites, they are the type when asked to name an F1 team, they struggle after naming Ferrari, if Ferrari do not race in F1, half the venues will not be able to host a race due to governments deeming it not worth their while to give money to Bernie, if Bernie cannot even bring Ferrari to the show, no Ferrari means no influx of ignorant F1 fans means nothing for the local economy. The thing is most people that understand F1 know that there is no way Max can beat Ferrari on this, at least now Max is no longer the only one who doesnt realize this lost......

There's never been a better time! Let's go, FOTA. Send the bloated old tyrants packing and get back to racing the way it's supposed to be.

deepwater330 - agreed. Its all too easy just to side with Fota as the default position because, as we all know, the FIA are evil....But you expect a group to govern a breakaway series when they still haven't proved that they can agree on any of the detail themselves. Christian Horner says "the devil is in the detail" but I don't think Fota can even agree on that detail yet let alone taking it to the FIA. Seems to me that's why we keep hearing vague, high level principles without any kind of coherent progress from them. I'd love them to prove me wrong, I really would, but I suspect the diversity within Fota is such that its proving difficult for them to agree on the detail internally and that will be a major stumbling block in moving things forward, for F1 or a breakaway series. Meanwhile they run the increased risk of falling foul of Max's political manoeuvring as has already happened this week

bjchap, i totally agree with you. i think we've got an infiltrator in the midst namely deepwater330!!!

FOTA - Just do it. You know you want to be in control of your own destiny? It's going to be great. More racing, more money, more fun. And best of all no medling from outside parties.

deepwater330 - spot on.

deepwater330, What is your real name? Max Mosely or Bernie Ecclestone? FOTA, c'mon lets get on with the break away series and get on with some real racing and as Lewis Hamilton commented, put some (lots) of fun back in Formula 1

Stop talking and do it already will you FOTA. Do you really think that Max is going to go queitly, if in fact he's going to go at all! And there is no guarantee that his replacement won't be exactly the same. FOTA needs to breakaway now, the fans are with them, they'll be no shortage of tracks that will want to stage a race and i'm sure there'll be a number of broadcasters and promoters who would jump at the chance of having the 'real' F1.

Woo Hooo!

So FOTA calls the FIA dictatorial. But given its own way the new entry teams would not be given voting rights by FOTA and presumably this second tier of lowly beings would include Williams and F.I. after being thrown out of FOTA for their delinquency in agreeing to uphold their contractual obligations. So who is being dictatorial? It would appear that if let loose FOTA, dominated by virtue of the muscle of the manufacturers, would play the same game as the one they accuse the FIA of playing. This is just exchanging one tyrant for another. As for the breakaway series being an option, just consider the organisation required; set up the system, set up the rules, arrange the venues, arrange the TV coverage, arrange the PR, arrange the logistics etc. etc. If they try to go ahead, having got rid of the FIA they will have no one else but each other on which to vent their inflated egos so probably it will take them until this time next year just to agree the rules. And how many of the existing inventory of circuits will be free to hold an event, whilst how many of the old circuits planned for inclusion will meet modern F1 safety standards without very major rework? And all this will be going on while they are preoccupied with winning or losing this year¿s championships and fighting the inevitable litigation that is bound to ensue. And they expect people to believe that this can all be in place to start in March next year. This is before considering which of the motor manufacturers are going to underwrite the massive costs of this. No wonder max Mosley is calling their bluff!

It is about time they breakaway, and if CVC falls in line, we get rid of "Dumb and Dumber" AMEN

arnett, infighting at fota isnt going to help things is it? the fota 8 are working together in unity so surely that proves the current combination of chair / vice is the right one. the big motivation for fota at the moment is the fact they know they have the majority of the fans with them - the big group of people scattered across the globe that the fia have forgotten about - hence now going direct to CVC ..hey if all else fails perhaps CVC will join fota in setting up the new formula 1!

Dear mezrg. Brawn didn't come up with a winning car in three months. If you think that's the case then your understanding of amount of work that goes into designing an F1 car is not the best. That chassis was a Honda design originally and it would have taken at least 6 to 9 months of full development. If a winning car could be designed in 3 Months, McLaren and Ferrari would not be scrapping this seasons championship bid to to concentrate on designing for next season, they would have developed a race winning car by now.

the teams can simply run developments of this years cars if they're going to have a breakaway, after all one of FOTAs main aims is to keep the regs the way they are so there will only be minimal changes to make. Dont forget, any breakaway series would not be subject to FIA rules or regulations so the teams can do what they want to do. They could even run this years cars for 2010 and roll out the new Regs for 2011.

mezrg "Brawn came up with a race winning car in 3 months - They will organize the calender in a few weeks - no worries.. " What rubbish, as we all know Brawn used what Honda left behind... dont be foolish....

I think John Howett (current vice President of FOTA) should be their Chairman. Don't forget, this spat started when Luca di Montezemolo inflamed everything after agreement had been reached with the FIA. Can anyone every forget that jibe reported in December 2007 from Montezemolo that the English apparently never miss a chance to demonstrate their lack of Sportsmanship ! Does anyone else agree, Luca is potentially more dangerous tham Max ?

Please FOTA start a New series without all this present baggage, and bring on, North America, racing in "real venues in front of live audience, Less regs, and more innovation, for example like Tyrell's 6 wheel car, 3 car teams, something new and exciting.

If FOTA want another series im sure its to late for next season,as a suggestion breakaway,use next year for all developments,contracts,track organisation and such and concentrate on 20011.

Brawn came up with a race winning car in 3 months - They will organize the calender in a few weeks - no worries..

FOTA seem to make dignified, sensible comments, whereas Mr. F.I.A. Mosley seems to be an arsonist with intent to 'burn-down' the whole FIA, F1 structure to the ground. I'm sure CVC and horrified at whats happening and are much more willing to 'talk' with FOTA than Mad Max who can only redicule himself by calling people names, etc. The way Mr. Mosley is carrying on, along with his age must call into question health problems that aflict the aged and their reasoning.

Yes, but they need to do it NOW, it's July already.

I've wanted FOTA to break away since this first started but it is not going to happen. FOTA are now talking directly with CVC who have invested £1.5billion in obtaining the commercial rights. They will do a deal. Max is toast!

The FIA are just playing games and trying to delay any possibility or prospect of technical development for a breakaway series for next year. If FOTA are indeed serious they need to bail now while they can still develop non-FIA regulated cars for a new series.

Come on FOTA, get on with it. Stop the threats just give us our series. It's getting boring. You know what you need to do. This conflict will never end with the FIA.

support FOTA email them at http://www.teamsassociation.org/ tell them we are sick of the FIA lets get GP1 racing, lets get three-car teams, lets get canada and the usa back

I vote for 1.) 2010 Formula FOTA World Championship 2.) 3 races in America / 2 races in Canada 3.) fans "have a say" no more bernie! FORMULA FOTA 2012!!!!

@bikerbaz,FOTA are starting to sound like Mad Max first i will then i wont.I agree its make or break NOW.

It's ridiculously clear that there are very few(if any) people around the world that want Mosley to stay president. I hope F1 doesn't die, but I will follow the FOTA wherever they go. Long live the TEAMS!

Every time FOTA threaten to breakaway and don't, they lose credibility. Max has far from given up on his underhanded tactics. They need to make an immediate, final decision to breakaway now or pander to Mosley.

It's all huffing and puffing, and we are all sick to death of hearing it. If FOTA cannot accept the position Max keeps putting them in, then they should make it clear once and for all they are withdrawing from F1 at the end of this season. Everyone who matters would love to hear it, and will go with them.